November 16, 1755 was a dark day for the Henry Kobel family of Berks County, Pa. It would be their last.
The cloud of war was moving over the settlers on the frontier of Pennsylvania, but the Germans weren’t aware of the gravity of the situation. Arriving in 1710, they had been pushed from one location to the next by unscrupulous British politicians, to the breaking point. Twice, they went to live among the Indians, quite successfully. They negotiated with the Mohawks for land and lived as good neighbors, in harmony, until once again, they were told by the British that they didn’t own their land and would have to repurchase it from wealthy British land-owners. Finally, they wound up in the 1720s on the newly formed frontier in what would eventually become Berks County, living once again next to the Indians, this time, the Delaware. All went relatively well for many years, but with the advent of the French and Indian War in the 1750s, things changed. The Delaware, in retrospect, blamed the Germans for pushing them off of their lands.
The Germans thought they were safe. In their eyes, they weren’t British and they weren’t French. They had negotiated as Germans with their neighbors, the Indians.
However, the French thought of them as British subjects, which they were. The Iroquois Indians who were not their neighbors though of them as one more wave of European interlopers taking their lands, and when the French encouraged the Indians to raid the white settlements, the Germans of Bethel Township in Berks County, Pa. were prime targets on the edge of the white settlement, up against Indian villages.
More than one account says that the Germans were warned by friendly Onieda Indians, several times, but the Germans laughed and scoffed at those warning them. One Onieda Indian said that the Germans “paid not the least regard to what I told them; and laughed at me, slapping their hands on their buttocks.” They would not laugh long. Not only did they disregard the warnings in 1755, but again in 1756 and 1757, and again, they were attacked.
Another account says the Germans refused to accept the British troops sent to protect the frontier, believing they didn’t need protection. After they were attacked, they quickly petitioned for those British troops to return.
The German confidence in their Indian friends and allies was not entirely misplaced. Yet another report says that over 100 Indians turned back when they realized their target was the Germans, but 250 more proceeded with 90 French to attack their villages and farms.
What we do know, unquestionably, are the results.
Conrad Weiser, a leader in the German community was a man intimately familiar with the Indians, having lived among the Mohawk, with a Mohawk family, as a young man, and was torn apart by this turn of events. He functioned with ease in both worlds and had for his entire life.
In a letter to Conrad Weiser, Peter Spycker reported on the massacre in Bethel Township on Sunday, November 16, 1755: “John Anspack and Frederick Reed came to me and told me the miserable circumstances of the people murdered this side of the Mountain. Yesterday, the Indians attacked the watch, killed and wounded him at Derrick Sixth (Dietrich Six’s fort in Bethel Township) and in that neighborhood great many in that night. This morning our people went out to see; came about 10 o’clock in the morning to Thomas Bower’s house, finding a man dead, killed with a gun shott. Soon we heard a noise of firing guns; running to that place and found 4 Indians sitting on children, scalping, 3 of the children are dead and 2 are alive, the scalps are taken off…”
Weiser wrote to Governor Morris on November 18 and 19 about the massacre, discussing the event, but not providing the names of those massacred.
Conrad Weiser’s November 19th letter to Gov. Morris:
“On my return from Philadelphia I met in Amity Twp., Berks Co., the first news of our cruel enemy having invaded the county this side of the Blue Mountains, to wit: Bethel and Tulpehocken. My sons Philip and Frederick arrived from the pursuit of the Indians and gave me the following relation: That on last Saturday, about 4 o’clock in the afternoon, as some men from Tulpehocken were going to Dietrich Six’s place under the hills on the Shamokin road, to be on the watch appointed there, they were fired upon by the Indians but none hurt nor killed (our people were but 6 in number, the rest being behind), upon which our people ran towards the watch-house, which was one half of a mile off, and the Indians pursued them, and killed and scalped several of them. The first party (of settlers who came the next day) saw four Indians running off. They had some prisoners, whom they scalped immediately; three children they scalped yet alive, one died since and the other two are likely to do well. Another party found a woman just expired, with a male child on her side, both killed and scalped; the woman lay upon her face; my son Frederick turned her about to see who she might have been and to his and his companions surprise they found a babe about 14 days old under her, wrapped up in a little cushion, his nose quite flat, which was set right by Frederick and life was yet in it and it recovered again.”
At Reading on November 18, 1755, Captain Jacob Morgan of Colonel Weiser’s regiment deposed that on November 16 he and Philip and Peter Weiser were on their way about 5 o’clock in the afternoon to Dietrick Six’s, that in a house about 9 miles from Conrad Weiser’s they found many people, including a girl of about 6 who had been scalped but was still alive. Two of their party returned to Tuplehocken to get more powder and shot. Hearing that the Indians were at George Dollinger’s house, they gathered a party of about 100 men and on November 17, went to Dollinger’s whose family had already left. Much damage had been done by the Indians. In the garden they found a girl of about 8 years of age said to the daughter of one “Cola” lying dead and scalped. They buried her. They went on the house of one Abraham Sneider, in whose cornfield they found the wife of “Cola” and a child about 8 or 9 years old, both dead and scalped. In the house they found another child of “Cola” about 10 years old dead and scalped. The buried all three. Then they went on to Thomas Bower’s house where they found a dead man who had been scalped.
However, Weiser’s letter on November 24th, again to the Governor, provides us with the terrifying details and the identity of the family.
“I cannot forbear to acquaint your Honour of a certain Circumstance of the late unhappy Affair: One….Kobel, with his wife and eight children, the eldest about fourteen Years and the youngest fourteen Days, was flying before the Enemy, he carrying one, and his Wife and a Boy another of the Children, when they were fired upon by two Indians very nigh, but hit only the Man upon his Breast, though not Dangerously. They, the Indians, then came with their Tomhacks (sic) knocked the Woman down, but not dead. They intended to kill the Man, but his Gun, though out of order so he could not fire, kept them off.
The Woman recovered so farr, and seated herself upon a Stump, with her Babe in her Arms, and gave it Suck; and the Indians driving the Children together, and spoke to them in High Dutch, ‘be still we won’t hurt you’. Then they struck a Hatchit into the Womans Head, and she fell upon her Face with her Babe under her, and the Indian trod on her Neck and tore off the Scalp. The Children then run: four of them were scalped, among which was a Girl of Eleven Years of Age, who related the whole Story: of the scalped, two are alive and like to do well. The rest of the Children ran into the Bushes and the Indians after them, but our People coming near to them, and hallowed and made noise; The Indians Ran, and the Rest of the Children were saved…There was about Seven or Eight of the Enemy.”
Certified genealogist Shirley Turner writing in the National Genealogical Society Quarterly in December 1981 relates more about this family and filled in some details.
Henry Kobel and his wife were Mennonites. The Mennonite faith is a pacifist faith that refuses to fight, even to protect themselves and opposes violence of any kind. It’s certainly possible that the Kobel family did not defend themselves, even after Henry had been shot. Perhaps it wasn’t that his gun couldn’t fire, but that he wouldn’t, although from today’s perspective, that is simply difficult for me to imagine.
Both parents were killed of course. Of their 8 children, we know that 3 were scalped and died that day. Two more females were scalped and initially survived, but we don’t know if they ultimately survived the scalping or if they died from the results, or from something else. One would think that having an ancestor who survived being scalped would be noteworthy, but there are no stories of such (that I’m aware of) in the Kobel family or the German descendant community.
The three Kobel children known to have survived, all boys, the two oldest children and the youngest at just 14 days of age, were all eventually baptized back into the Lutheran faith as young adults. Henry Kobel had been raised Lutheran but had married a Mennonite woman. Their children were born into the Mennonite faith.
Ultimately, the French and Indian War, also known as the 7 Years War, ended with the signing of the Treaty of Paris in 1763. Both the French and the Indians lost. France ceded Canada and the demarcation line of the frontier, ostensibly to protect Indian lands, shown in green below, was pushed westward to the Appalachian Mountains, a line that was never respected and did little to stem the tide of settlers flowing into the Indians’ lands.
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I am an ancestor (and survivor?!?!) of the KOBEL massacre.
My 5th great grandfather Johann Fredrich Kobel/Koble (b1743 Berks Co.- d1801) was one of the little boys that out-ran the invading indians during massacre of his family in 1755.
>Johann Friedrich Kobel (1764-1837)
>Peter Kobel (1805-1895)
>Jacob Kobel (1839-1911)
>James H. Koble (1867-1912)
>>my grandma Mary R Koble (1899 – 1982)
We are cousins. There is a Coble/Koble DNA project. Have you considered testing?
I would love to test my DNA in connection with the Coble/Koble project. Do you have any names/information I can contact to proceed? Thanks
We’d love to have any Koble/Coble descendant in the project. I’ll contact you via e-mail. We do our testing at http://www.familytreedna.com and you can find the link on the sidebar of the blog.
Some Kobel/Coble/Cable family members arrived from what was then Switzerland now Germany with a religious pacifist leader, then traveled to North Carolina from Pennsylvania and then some of those to Kentucky. See http://docsouth.unc.edu/csr/index.html/document/csr08-0371
Also, see http://files.usgwarchives.net/pa/somerset/history/family/cable.txt
I’m female so don’t know if my dna is useful but have some male progeny
Per my ancestry research Johann Heinrich Kobel (1741-1801) is the oldest of the 3 boys who lived through this event and he is my wife’s 5th great grandfather. Her Lineage is:
CHRISTIAN Kobel Coble (1765-1830) Pa
Henry Coble (1798 – 1895) PA-OH
Daniel L Coble 1835-1890) Ohio
John B Coble (1859-1953) Ohio
Ada Blanche Coble – Schultz (1889-1985) Ohio
Betty Marie Schultz – Miller ((1921-1998) Ohio
Susan Marie Miller-Wright Ohio -Minnesota
My 5th and 6th great grandfathers were Joann Heinrich Kobel…..goes to Alexander Zartman and Salome Kobel. We are cousins.
My best friend in High School was a Jon Coble of Dauphin County. He still lives there in the family farm. Wonder if their is a relation.
Is there a possibility the author of this story could contact me regarding re-publishing it in an historical magazine?
Charles Adams, Reading, PA
I am also a Kobel descendant, but am not quite sure how I might tie into this family. Barbara Kobel who married Peter Deppen in September 1772 was my 5th great-grandmother twice – once on my father’s side and once on my mother’s. Her parents were supposedly Frederick Kobel and Veronica. I have seen the baptisms of the surviving Kobel boys as adults in the church records and wondered if they had perhaps been Mennonites. Was pleasantly surprised to learn I was right.
I am also a Kobel descendent. I am a descendent of Johann Jacob Kauffman by way of George/George and then Barbara.
If you have taken the autosomal DNA test we can see if we match – meaning if we share any Kobel DNA. If you have not tested and are interested, please take the Family Finder test at http://www.familytreedna.com and let me know.
What year was your Johann Jacob Kauffman born and where? What is his connection to the Kobel family?
The warning about an imminent attack by the French and their Indian allies is usually attributed to the raid on German Flats, NY in November 1757, two years after the first attack on Berks County.
I am also a direct descendant of Johann Friedrich Kobel (ca 1743 – 1801). His son Johannes/John Kobel/Cobel (1765 – 1847) bought two tracts of land in Hamilton Township, Franklin County, PA on October 12, 1798. That is just west of Chambersburg. Cobles lived on that land for several generations. My grandmother, Cora (Cobel) Besecker was born and raised on it. Many generations are buried in the nearby Coble Cemetery.
Per my ancestry research Johann Heinrich Kobel (1741-1801) is the oldest of the 3 boys who lived through this event and is my wife’s 5th great grandfather. Her Lineage is:
CHRISTIAN Kobel Coble (1765-1830) Pa
Henry Coble (1798 – 1895) PA-OH
Daniel L Coble 1835-1890) Ohio
John B Coble (1859-1953) Ohio
Ada Blanche Coble – Schultz (1889-1985) Ohio
Betty Marie Schultz – Miller ((1921-1998) Ohio
Susan Marie Miller-Wright
I am descended from Abraham Cable (Kobel). Can anyone tell me how he was related to what happened there, and where he was? I see several familiar names, used in later generations. I believe that one of Abraham’s sons was Christian, who begat Tobias, my 3rd great grandfather.
Johann Frederick Kobel is my 5th great grandfather.
Johann Friedrich Kobel 1764-1837
Son of Johann Heinrich Kobel
Salome Kobel 1786-1862
Daughter of Johann Friedrich Kobel
Isaac Zartman 1814-1901
Son of Salome Kobel
Magdelena L. Zartman 1844-1920
Daughter of Isaac Zartman
Evon Zartman Vogt 1880-1943
Son of Magdelena L. Zartman
JoAnn Vogt 1922-2003
Daughter of Evon Zartman Vogt
Kristeen (Kristi) Davis
You are the daughter of JoAnn Vogt
Through genealogy research I have discovered that I am a descendant of the Kobel family.
If you have taken the autosomal DNA test at Family Tree DNA, or transferred results there, you are welcome to join the Kobel/Cobel DNA project.
I’m reluctant to add noise to YDNA groups when it is not my paternal line. How is the atDNA compared? I’m not confident I can confirm this way as I have many lines from the area.
You would look for matches within the project, contact the matches, look for your common ancestor or ancestors and work to triangulate the segments.
my name is Patti Kobel I most be related to the Kobel I would like to be able to take the DNA test
You are most welcome to test at Family Tree DNA and join our Kobel project there. I will write to you privately.
I too am a descendant of this family. The oldest son. Does anyone know the exact location if the massacre? I am returning ti Pensylvania soon and would like to visit the site to pay my respects.
I would suggest calling the local historical society and asking. Can’t hurt.
I have no idea whether WordPress forwarded my earlier reply. If so, I won’t waste time telling you I live near the Kobel/Koble site and may be able to help.
I’ve found Johann Heinrich Kobel is my 7th Great Grandfather via the Batdorf family. Very interesting website.
I am Kimberly Faith Kobel
My Father: Frank AI Kobel 1932-2008
My Grand Father: Charles Henery 1902-1965
Great Grand Father AI Welcome: 1878-
Levi David: 1849-1920
Christain: 1808-1892
Christain: 1765-1830
Johanna Hendrich: 1741-?
Henery: 1712-1775
Christain: 1808-1892
In the course of researching the early history of Bethel Township in Berks County, Pennsylvania, I have found little evidence to support the various family stories about the circumstances surrounding attacks on the German settlers living on the Pennsylvania frontier by Lenape warriors during the French and Indian War.
By 1755, the Lenape villages were a considerable distance from Bethel Township. Sassoonan and his people had vacated the ancestral land south of the Blue (Kittatinny) Mountain soon after the arrival of the Palatine Germans in 1723 because the cattle brought by the refugees from New York destroyed the corn and other crops planted by the Lenape. Sassoonan’s nephews, Pisquetomen and Shingas, who led the Lenape raids on the Pennsylvania frontier, had relocated to the Ohio Valley several years before the French began their aggressive claim to that area.
The warning given to German settlers by Oneida neighbors occurred in the Mohawk Valley of New York, not in Pennsylvania. However, the farmers in Bethel Township were aware of possible attacks in mid-November 1755 because of reports of the massacre at Penns Creek in the upper Susquehanna Valley (on the other side of the Blue Mountain) a few days earlier.
There is no record of British troops protecting Bethel Township. However, the farmers were grateful for the presence of Pennsylvania militia stationed at Fort Henry and Fort Northkill, which served as ranging posts and shelter for local families — but constructed only several months after the Kobel massacre.
In reality, few French soldiers (actually Canadian militiamen) accompanied the Lenape raiding parties. Probably not even 90 French/Canadian fighters were involved in the entire frontier conflict beyond the Ohio Valley from Pennsylvania to North Carolina. During raids on the farmers of eastern Pennsylvania, Lenape warriors led the way, and the occasional white man tagged along.
The background issues may be in dispute, but you are right: What we do know, unquestionably, are the results.
I am a Cable, and it seems it stems from Kobel. My g.g.g. grandfather was a William Cable b. around 1799 in Pennsylvania. He was supposedly married (though I can find no proof other than a marriage certificate signature) to a mysterious Emaline Forbes. They had several children, including my g.g. grandfather, Daniel Martin Cable. I just got my DNA results and when I typed “Cable” in the search bar for DNA relatives, one woman’s profile popped up, which had Cable as one of her surnames. I found her tree and found that Cable, which lead me to another Cable name (a female – so the Cable/Kobel name ended there), which lead me to this article. That female ancestor of hers had one brother (that her tree shows anyway) and his name was Johann Heinrich Kobel. I wonder if I descend from his grandson – if indeed he had one. Or maybe this is just a stretch and my imagination’s gotten the best of me. However I’ve yet to find ANY other Cable/Kobel DNA relative until now (e.g. while managing my dad’s and brother’s accounts on 23andMe)…it’s certainly not a very common name. If anyone knows more that might be of use, please let me know! Thank you.
If you have a Cable male to Y DNA test, we can resolve that question. Otherwise, have people in that line done autosomal testing at Family Tree DNA? We do have known descendants there.
I recently found out that I .most likely related through Coble /Noble family line by way of my grandmother last name McCann…by way of George Coble and Johann Henrich”Henry”Coble who was born in Hanover,York,Pennsyvannia in 1751 who .married A. Margareta Emig Amick 1750 to1826 born in Guilford North Carolina Nov1750 they lived in North Orange N.C. and are buried there. A Sarah Elizabeth “Betty”Coble andJemima”Jane”Coble-McCann1845-1929 Hickman Tn. Rest of .McCanns were in Perry Co ect in Tn and No a d Ark ..many in Cal. Ind Ohio.ILL. I traceed I form A 2nd cousin family in Cal. all of this started because I was trying to find .y fathers real mothers grave as she died when he was in diapers her name was .Myrtle Modena McCann–Briley. I read article about massacre…was hard reading it…a d how many died…Hopefully maybe you’ll find some of us in your search for family .
I know, the massacre story was awful to read. I can only imagine the terror of the children.
I descend from Johann “Frederick” Friedrich Kobel of Bethel Township, Berks Co., Penn. His grandson, Abraham Kobel, resided in Carroll Co., Indiana. Abraham is my ggg grandfather. I have a book from the early 1800s, which reports the 1755 attacks. We have a Kobel family history which includes the survivors of the attacks.
Hi James. What is the name of the book. I’d like to order if it’s still available.
I’d also like to know more about this Kobel family history book.
i know the names of the 3 boy survivors. i heard there were two female survivors, one rescued at the scene and on taken captive by the lanape and released at the end of the war 8 years later. maybe catherine rescued at the scene and barbara the captive.
I would really love to find a copy of the book also can you tell me the name of it please
Kimberly Kobel
Did anyone ever get that book? I’d be very interested in getting a copy for myself.
Hello, I believe I am a descendant of the Kobel family through my Deffenbaugh/Riffel line. This line has been a pain and lead me chasing down the wrong Deffenbaughs for centuries until I believe I corrected it here. I have Maria Sybilla Kobel as my ancestor, daughter of Johann Heinrich and Anna Maria. I would appreciate any help confirming this.
Ironically, the last “Daniel Deffenbaugh” line I followed led me to the Lachine massacre…those colonials people had it rough.
I too am a descendant of Maria Sybilla Kobel, she is my 5yh Great Grandmother but I do have confusion with the Deffenbaughs also. Would like to share key information
You can contact me at greerpalmer@gmail.com
I am also a descendant of Maria Sybilla Kobel. My understanding is that she was the sister of Johann Heinrich (Henry) Kobel, and the daughter of Jacob Kobel (1682-1710) + Anna Maria (1684-1774).
Please join the Kobel project at Family Tree DNA. Would love to have you. It will be interesting to see if you match any of the other descendants of this couple.
I joined this, transferred my Ancestry results, but do not see a match with you. I did send in my test kit from FamilyTree also, but have not seen any results of that test, only my results transferred.
Check for a match to Barbara Ferverda. She is one generation closer. There are also two other Ferverda’s in the system who you might match.
Do not see any Ferverda’s. I have 739 matches but not these individuals
If you go to the advanced matching tab, you can match within project. That might be quite useful. I have to be sure all of my applicable relatives have joined:)
I’m a descendant of Johann Heinrich Kobel. Thank you for sharing
I commented on here a couple of years ago. Since then I’ve gotten my Cable father to have his DNA tested – I just need to transfer it over to the project now (hope it’s not too complicated!).
What’s very fun is that I’d forgotten I’d ever even seen this page much less commented on it, and since then I went down quite the deep rabbit hole trying to figure out which of the few Kobel/Cable lines out there that I come from, via Ancestrty.com. What I did was I did a DNA search for all cousins WITH PUBLIC TREES who claim some version of the name. Then I made a very detailed list of each of those cousins’ ancestors (based on their admittedly unscientific family trees). That was where things got exciting. I quickly realized each of them went back through various descendants of what turned out to be the massacre survivors (though at the time I hadn’t yet even realized or remembered there was a massacre). Most of my descendant-cousins descend from daughters of the survivor boys (if memory serves; I did save all my notes!) so lost the Kobel name long ago but still had the research results and/or family records I guess. It was also interesting to note that only some of them were from the same line/ancestor while others from other ones – and yet they are all my and each other’s cousins! Needless to say I followed each of their lines back to the parents of the head of the massacred family and underlined those parents’ names each time (they all lead back to that German couple, save one)!
I can’t wait to see if my dad’s DNA is a match. I kinda wonder how it couldn’t be! How could all their trees be wrong if they’re not all the same (copied from someone)?! They all end up at different children of the survivors!
Have any of you tried this method or am I just a goofball?!!
Even if the results are positive, it doesn’t change the fact that there’s a big gap between the massacre-surviving children’s sons (remember my dad is an actual Kobel/Cable) one of whom likely was the possible/probable direct ancestor to my peeps, and the oldest Cable we actually have family records and documents on and know existed. Meaning who came AFTER one of the Johann boys’ sons that leads to us (our ancestor, if indeed that is the case) yet came BEFORE my ggg grandfather? There’s a 60-year gap! 😦
Lastly, I’ll share what I DO know, though I truly don’t expect any of this to ring a bell for any of you since most of you come from the daughters!): my ggg grandfather was supposedly born around 1800 and was named John William Cable or William John Cable (documents show both). The name John may have come from Johann. One document says he was born in Pa. Another says Virginia (probably less accurate as that was the result of an amateur genealogist in the 1960s…but who knows). Another document claims born in Germany (death certificate filled out by DIL) and yet another I think says Connecticut (or is it Massachusetts). Nice. We were always told Pennsylvania verbally anyway. There are confirmed records that this man had a son named John William Cable born in DC so that was probably Jr. to my ggg grandfather being Sr. His other son was MY gg grandfather and his name was Daniel Martin Cable b. In 1829 in Virginia. His/their mother’s name is equally confusing: it was either Emaline Forbes or Therina Forbes and records show Enfield, Connecticut for birth but it may also have been Massachusetts (assuming either are even remotely correct). We can find no records she ever existed beyond being listed as Emaline Forbes on her son’s marriage certificate, and Therina Forbes on her son’s death certificate (informed by her DIL I’m the latter case). Well I found ONE matching Emaline Forbes on a church record but with no other clues. We also can’t find documents on her husband beyond those same documents (marriage and death certificates) or a variety of “maybe it’s him” John or William Cables listed on ancient public census records that offer up no meaningful clues to my eye. So Daniel and Martin may be family names – or maybe on the Forbes side of at all. Another son was Rufus Ebert Cable. He named the Garden of the Gods in Colorado. 😉 Daughters’ names were Lucy, Emaline and Harriet.
Thanks for reading all this! 😬
At Family Tree DNA, your Cable male relative needs to take the Y DNA test to confirm the lineage. If you haven’t already done this, here’s the link. https://affiliate.familytreedna.com/idevaffiliate.php?id=336 I would like for him to also take the Family Finder test to connect with relatives other than males with a common surname. To join the project there, just click on the projects tab, then the join option, then type the surname into the search box if the project isn’t immediately displayed. Click on that project link to join.
Forgive my ignorance… my dad’s father long since dead had his DNA tested through National Geographic in the early 2000s (maybe as late as 2004 or so). That was before there were so many advances so that only shows us waaaay back from Africa and such. My dad’s DNA was tested a couple of years ago on 23andMe and he was a serious stick in the mud about getting it done. My brother as well, but equal stick in the mud if not worse. I manage my dad’s 23andMe account and can transfer it but will this be enough?
I tested mine through Ancestry. Until I transfer his DNA to the right place/s, would it be helpful to to compare our DNA through 23 or Ancestry? And is my grandfather’s pretty much useless?
Thanks!
(Part 2 of 2)
Just called FamilyTreeDNA and no I can’t transfer 23andMe data because it’s the wrong kind. My grandfather’s results from Nat’l Geographic could be, but they’re extremely limited being the less detailed kind as well as with no ability to match relatives. This means I’ll have to try to get my dad on board again…great… Wish me luck!
Is my own DNA helpful at all even tho I’m female?
You really need your Dad’s Y DNA. If you can’t get your Dad to test again, do you have a brother through your father, or does he have a brother? That would work but if you test your Dad, you can also test his autosomal and that will be helpful for your genealogy in other ways too. Your Dad is best if possible.
Hey you may not ready this before a sale ends, but there are different prices depending on whether you wants 37 markers, 67 or higher. Is 37 good enough? What do most people get. And do the higher numbers correspond to more DNA cousins?
Thanks!
37 is a good place to start. Typically higher numbers of markers are used to refine matches, so often you receive fewer higher matches, but higher matches are often closer. I tell people to buy what they can afford.
Hmmm… Just talked to my dad and he’s interested (yay!) but this is a hard choice – which # of markers to choose from. Lower numbers gets you more results and higher gets you less but more closely related. You’re not saying that if we paid more and got the one with higher numbers of markers, we wouldn’t also be getting the less-closely-related results as well? Are we risking seeing less distant results in addition to the more closely related results when we pay more for the better test, or do we get the results of both (if that makes sense!)? Thanks yet again.
You can test at 37 and upgrade later once you see what you have.
My husband is a Kobel ancestor. Johann Kobel’s sister, Maria Sybilla is his direct line. We still live in Bethel Township, only a couple miles from where this happened.
My husband would also take part in dna research.
Hi Denise. The place to start is to take the Family Finder test at Family Tree DNA and join the Kobel DNA project. The link is on the sidebar if the blog. I’m excited. Do you know where the massacre happened? Is the historical location marked?
Hi Denise,
My ancestor is also Maria Sybilla Kobel. She is my 5th Great Grandmother as shown in this lineage:
Maria Sybilla Koebel (1711 – 1807)
5th great-grandmother
John George Dieffenbach (1740 – 1788)
Son of Maria Sybilla Koebel
Adam Kapp Dieffenbach (1775 – 1849)
Son of John George Dieffenbach
Savilla (Sibby) DEFENBAUGH (1815 – 1874)
Daughter of Adam Kapp Dieffenbach
Adam McLean (1848 – 1902)
Son of Savilla (Sibby) DEFENBAUGH
Frederick Leroy McLean (1882 – 1959)
Son of Adam McLean
Edward Joseph McLean (1916 – 1990)
Son of Frederick Leroy McLean
Michael Edward McLean
Son of Edward Joseph McLean
My sister and I will be traveling through your area on the 17th of September doing some genealogy work. I would be very interested in meeting with you to compare notes, and to learn anything about Bethel township and the Kobel family.
Please contact me if you are interested in meeting.
Mike Mclean, memclean@aol.com 828 275 4057
I would like to share information with you. Maria Sybilla is my direct ancestor, my 5th great grandmother
What is the source of the assertion that Heinrich/Henry Kobel was a Mennonite in 1755?
Per my ancestry research Johann Heinrich Kobel (1741-1801) is the oldest of the 3 boys who lived through this event and is my wife’s 5th great grandfather. Her Lineage is:
CHRISTIAN Kobel Coble (1765-1830) Pa
Henry Coble (1798 – 1895) PA-OH
Daniel L Coble 1835-1890) Ohio
John B Coble (1859-1953) Ohio
Ada Blanche Coble – Schultz (1889-1985) Ohio
Betty Marie Schultz – Miller ((1921-1998) Ohio
Susan Marie Miller-Wright
I am a descendant of Johann Heinrich Kobel.
Do you have any family lore regarding the religious affiliation of Johann Heinrich Kobel? I have read conflicting accounts.
Interesting history and read. My great, great grandmother was Elizabeth Kobel 1845-1892. She married Henry W. Latshaw. Her father was Simon Kobel. Do you think there’s any connection? They are all from the coal region surrounding Northumberland County.
I don’t know. If you’ve DNA tested, do you match any descendants?
Where is the DNA tests being done. I am on Ancestry.com and have done their DNA test.
There are several at Family Tree DNA. There is also a Kobel DNA project there that you can join. You can upload your DNA results free.
I’m related to the Kobels and I just checked my DNA matches on Ancestry, and the name Jim Sahrayko doesn’t show up as a match…or do you have your ancestry DNA under another name?
Hi Kristeen,
My DNA is on Ancestry.com. I have marriage and other documents showing that on my Mother’s side an Elizabeth Kobel was married to Henry W. Latshaw.
Is there a way to transfer the DNA from Ancestry.com to this project?
Jim
My thru-lines on Ancestry only go up to Johann Heinrich Kobel born 1741…his father is the Johann Heinrich Kobel that was killed in the massacre. I don’t think Ancestry does thru-lines farther than that.
Jim, will you please let me know whatever new information you find? Also, does anyone know if any publications were written other than this thread? I’d like to read more about the family.
Please transfer your DNA to Family Tree DNA and join the Kobel project.
Michelle,
Good to see you are still researching. Yes if I come across something I’ll be sure to pass it along. I found this story to be interesting and a good incite into how hard life was in the early days of our country. Have a great day.
Jim
I read the post of Kristeen Davis and I am interested in checking to see if my DNA is a match to anyone here. My research links my family to Johann Kobel. My DNA information is on the Ancestry site.
Roberta,
How do you transfer your DNA from a site like Ancestry.com to see if I am connected to this Kobel family?
I love how many people have responded here. I have a few times in the past. I got my Cable dad to join familytreedna a few years ago but sadly he paid for one of the cheaper ones (less markers – maybe 37?). There have bizarrely been no Cables/Kobles on there that I can see. If I can get him to upgrade to the Big Y or something like that, I will. I called Family Tree and asked why we have so many solid records indicated we are Cables/Kobles going back to around 1800 and why aren’t there more men with the same surname if they share the same haplo group which by the way is G-M201. They said this is super common to have so many different surnames – very few if any matches – because for the lower amount of markers it means I’m trying to find matches waaaay too far back, supposedly (like, before the name was made solid anywhere). He also said there can be lots of other reasons a name doesn’t stick, like adoptions, remarriages, hiding from the law for various reasons ranging from criminality to fighting for the wrong side in a war, etc. And yet, I have several dna Cable/Kobel cousins on Ancestry so go figure. Anyway, again, my dad’s Y-DNA haplogroup is G-M201.
Isn’t it interesting that out of everyone here, no men still have the surname Kobel/Coble/Cable/Cauble/Koble/Cobel/Kabel/Kable/Keeble/Keebel/Goebel. Did I cover them all??!! 😉
Please find me on Ancestry and see if we’re connected through DNA or if any of us do mutually if not directly too each other. My user name there is MTheresse. Thanks!
Has you dad taken the Family Finder test at FamilyTreeDNA? If do, I’ll look to see if he matches my family members. Also, please be sure to join the Coble DNA project. Use the advanced feature to see if he matches people within the project, especially on the autosomal test.